It's probably good news...

[rabidsamfan]

... that I have just spent the last hour diving my way through the book looking for data about the master/servant relationship between Sam and Frodo. I.e., how articulated is it?

It's kind of fascinating, actually.



As early as the encounter with Gildor Inglorion, Frodo is referred to as Sam's master (and Sam is referred to as Frodo's faithful Sam). In Bree, the narrator again uses 'his master' about Sam to Frodo. At Weathertop it seems that Frodo thinks of himself as Sam's master, and it's at Weathertop that Aragorn says "your master" to Sam when referring to Frodo.

While they're still on the way to Rivendell, Sam calls Frodo "my master" twice, once to Aragorn and once to Glorfindel. And Bilbo, in Rivendell that first night, calls Frodo "your master" when he's addressing Sam.

(trivia: at the council of Elrond, both Bilbo and Sam address Elrond as Master.)

Gandalf calls Frodo "your master" to Sam outside Moria, and Galadrial does the same after the incident with the mirror.
(Sam uses "my master" right back to her, too.)

At parth galen, the narrator uses "his master" and Sam uses "my master".

Near the beginning of the Two towers, Aragorn refers to Frodo as Sam's master,

And then, at last, we see the first dialogue instance in which Sam addresses Frodo as master, right at the beginning of their part of the Two Towers, in "The Taming of Smeagol". He does so again, several times, quite soon. Then of course they pick up Smeagol, and it's hard to tell which one of them calls Frodo 'master' more often without counting more than I actually mean to spend time on. There's a curious thing that happens to Sam's thoughts and speech when he's thinking about Gollum – he occasionally says or thinks 'master' without the preface of 'my', much the way that Gollum speaks about Frodo. Very odd.

(n.b. hmmm. I'd thought Sam only addresses Frodo and Elrond as Master, but I see he calls one of Faramir's men that too…)

There's a ton of examples of Sam calling Frodo Master or thinking of him as master throughout the rest of the quest itself. But there's a long curious gap in reference to Frodo as Sam's master between the waking at Cormallen and the chapter on the Grey Havens. Not once on that long trip home is Frodo referred to as Sam's master. Dialogue wise we don't see "master" out of Sam between the time he gives back Sting and the moment that Frodo is about to tell him that he's leaving Middle Earth.


"But it doesn't mean anything" I hear you chirping.

Probably not...

I think I'm going to have to go back through and figure out how often Sam addresses Frodo without the honorific Mr., versus how often he uses "mr. Frodo", or "master" or "sir," to put all this into context.



The fascinating question that arises is, can we assume that Sam never calls Frodo "Master" before we see him do so in "The Taming of Smeagol", or is it possible that he does so earlier? Or does he just refer to Frodo as "my master" and that's why Gildor and Aragorn, and of all people Bilbo pick up on it?

Comments

[serai1.livejournal.com]

That is interesting. I don't think you can assume that Sam never calls Frodo "Master" during a certain time just because it's not quoted in the book. After all, we don't see every word exchanged between them on the Quest, just those conversations that Tolkien chooses to relate. It's pretty obvious that they actually speak to each other a good deal more than what we get to hear. Sam could be using the term all during that time, here and there, without our knowing about it.

If I recall correctly, the instances of Sam imitating Gollum's use of the word happens when he's actually speaking to Gollum, am I right? Thus (to me) it's more a case of him mimicking the wretched creature rather than taking up the style of usage himself.

That gap at the end is interesting too. But again it's not certain that Sam never calls Frodo "Master" during that time, only that we don't get to see it. And since it's quite a stretch where our knowledge of specifics is spotty, I wouldn't say it's a sure thing. But it is interesting that Tolkien has presented us with a Sam who appears to have taken up his own independence a bit. I think that with the ending of the Quest, and taking up the task of healing the Shire, Sam moves from being Frodo's caretaker to being something closer to a friend, or someone devoted to him by choice rather than by station, though I still don't think Sam would ever see himself as Frodo's equal - birth is birth, after all, and can't be changed. (That's not to say that Sam's devotion was ever to be wholly attributed to their respective place. That Sam loves Frodo is clear from the very beginning. How could he not, having known Frodo as a kind master practically his whole life?)

During that time after the Quest, Sam does refer to Frodo as "sir" and "Mister", doesn't he? I seem to remember that he does still bestow honorifics on Frodo, just not the particular one of "Master". I find it rather touching that that term resurfaces at the very moment that he realizes he's losing his Master forever.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but the night that Sam's drinking and talking with Ted Sandyman and the others, just before Gandalf drops in, Sam refers to Frodo as the person he works for, not his master. For that matter, he calls him Mr. Baggins, and in the next breath speaks of Mr. Bilbo -- hhhmmm... goes to check... nope, he calls Frodo "Mr. Frodo" after Gandalf pulls him inside Bag End...

Still, I suppose it's possible that Sam's relationship with Frodo changed after that conversation. If Frodo was busy trying to seem as if he'd run out of money the first step would be to pension off any other servants he might have besides Sam. And as Sam becomes Frodo's hobbit-of-all-work (although he still thinks of himself as a gardener) he may have gone consciously to the idea of Frodo as master instead of mere employer.

so many questions...

[dreamflower]

Actually, I think it means a good deal.
I have noticed several variants in the use of "Master": we see it used, of course, to refer to the master/servant relationship, as you discuss here; it is a title--Master of Buckland, Master of Bag End; it is an honorific for someone who is a master at his craft (Bilbo calling the Gaffer "Master Hamfast" when consulting him on the garden comes to mind); it is used as a catch-all honorific among other races, sometimes as a substitute for "Mister"; and it is used as the honorific for very young males (Farmer Maggot to Pippin--"Master Pippin, or Mr. Peregrin Took, I should say" obviously is not tied to coming of age, since Pippin is still a tween, but significant anyway.)
But from the waking in Cormallen to the end of the story, it is *Sam's* story. JRRT very deliberately does not give us anyone else's POV at all, unless it is a flashback, such as Gimli recounting the finding of Pippin, or unless Sam is not on the scene, as in the scenes in Minas Tirith with Merry, Faramir and Eowyn (which are also flashbacks, come to think of it.) So, yes, even though we are not privy to every conversation they have, I think it significant that Sam no longer is saying "Master" to Frodo.

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Well, saying he works for Frodo doesn't negate the idea of him being Sam's "master". Servants work for their masters, after all, and the Shire isn't a feudal society. Hobbits are born into classes, seemingly, but those that work do so for pay. We have to remember that the distinction between "master" and "employer" that we make as modern Americans isn't necessarily one the hobbits would conceive of. To be honest, I'm not sure what distinction there is between the two, other than that one is would be a term used within a class system, and the other without. The distinction seems to be one of attitude more than anything else, of how Sam and Frodo see each other, rather than any real difference in the way Sam is connected to him as a servant.

[lame-pegasus.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... couldn't it be that Sam's attitude towards Frodo changes while he hears others referring to Frodo as his "master"? You know, Aragorn uses this term, several elves do, and perhaps he simply starts to use it, too, because he understands that it is absolutely correct? And I also think that he wouldn't use it while he's still in the Shire because the circumstances are simply different.

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the narrator uses "master" about the relationship long before any character does so in dialogue -- at the meeting with Gildor Inglorion*. Sam refuses to leave his master and "sleeps" beside him while Frodo and Gildor talk.


*(did I spell it right?)

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Actually, the close focus on Sam precedes the Field of Cormallen. After it we get a lot of stuff he couldn't have witnessed, like the finding of the White Tree. We actually go to being in Frodo's shoes for a while in the Shire, while Sam is off collecting the Gaffer.

Still, you've got some good points. The word master, or its variants, is used in a distinctly different fashion several times:

1. As a verb. (in several tenses.)
2. as part of "mastery"
3. As an honorific, in more than one way.
4. as a noun in more than one way.

I see I need to refine my data...

[lame-pegasus.livejournal.com]

I know he does, but still the fact remains that Sam only starts using "master" after several others did, and that he might be influenced.

Yes, you did. *grins*

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

I will keep an eye out for how Sam addresses people from The Forbidden Pool onwards. It never occurred to me to wonder before.

I think that his use of 'master' during the Gollum chapters generally had a strongly sarcastic tone, similar to his use of 'precious'. There may be a milder sarcasm in the way he addresses the Ranger, since he and Frodo are Faramir's captives as well as guests. However that wouldn't keep him from using it later with other kinds of intent. It's hard to say what, in the hobbits' society, counts as a form of intimate vs honorific address so I am going to watch and see how it is used.

I haven't gotten to The Field of Cormallen yet, and probably won't until after tax season at the rate I'm going, but from this distance I think that Sam's not thinking of Frodo as his master during the journey home and the Scouring may reflect a tension between how they perceive their relationship - the intimacy and interdependence they experienced constantly during the last part of the quest - and how everyone else treated them as different in terms of class. 'Master' may have meant something very different to Sam when he and Frodo were going up against Mordor alone but for each other, and when people who had never been there used it in a generic sense.

Re: Master in LoTR

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

The second word Sam says in "The Taming of Smeagol" is "Master" and that's before they've ever met up with the little slinker. If you look at it, the one thing Sam and Gollum agree on is that Frodo is the master of both of them. It's not a hierarchy -- Frodo =>Sam => Gollum. It's Frodo => Gollum and Frodo => Sam in parallel, which is one of the reasons why the two of them are jealous of each other.

I don't think Sam uses "master" sarcastically at all, not even when he's talking to Gollum. Not when he's talking about Frodo in any case!

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

> The second word Sam says in "The Taming of Smeagol" is "Master"

Is this his first use of it? Did he start after they left the rest of the Company, or only here?

Re: Master in LoTR

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

It's the first use we see in dialogue as a form of direct address. Sam refers to Frodo as "my master" in dialogue when speaking to Aragorn after Weathertop and again to Glorfindel, however. (and the narrator -- and Aragorn -- do the same earlier than that.)

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

Then it's a form of address that Sam started using only once they had been isolated together for a few days. I wonder what unrecorded event or realization in that period made the difference. It can hardly be that Sam is Frodo's servant, which has always been true. Nor is it a change that followed instantly on Sam's statement that he would die faster without Frodo than with him.

Re: Master in LoTR

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

See, that's just it. I don't think we can argue that Sam starts calling Frodo "master" all of a sudden when they're in the Emyn Muil and hasn't used the form before. (If nothing else, wouldn't Frodo react to the change?) And Sam's used to saying "master" to Frodo -- when Frodo falls to that ledge, it's the form he uses even though he's on the edge of panic.

Me, I think he's called Frodo "Master" before then, but it hasn't been in dialogue we're given a chance to read. He may have really gotten into the habit during those two months at Rivendell, but the nature of the relationship is clear to outsiders long before then.

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

If it isn't a change here, why date it back to Rivendell in particular?

Re: Master in LoTR

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

I don't actually, but in Rivendell Sam would hear a lot of people addressing Elrond as Master so...

Frodo calls Tom Bombadil "master" too. It's actually kind of fascinating going through and turfing out the forms of address...

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

If the people first addressed as Master are Tom Bomadil (who to be sure claims the title for himself) and Elrond, it is one of considerable respect, denoting a lot more than authority over a servant.

Re: Master in LoTR

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Yup. But it's also the way that Butterbur addresses potential clients for his inn...

If I do the work of checking the instances I'm going to have to split out the capital M's and small M's too.

Hmmm. I can think of four main forms of address in LotR

Mister
Master
Lord
Sir

Can you think of any others?

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

Not right off but I'm at work now and don't have the books in front of me. If I come across any I will let you know.

[zirconia-b.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to have to go back through and figure out how often Sam addresses Frodo without the honorific Mr., versus how often he uses "mr. Frodo", or "master" or "sir," to put all this into context.

I've never carefully looked for the different honorifics, but I've heard other people claim that the only time Sam addresses Frodo directly as "Frodo" (and not "Mr. Frodo") is during "The Choices of Master Samwise," when he thinks Frodo is dead -- during the "don't go where I can't follow" speech. (The narrator refers to "Frodo" when we're in Sam's POV, but it isn't clear to me that Sam actually thinks of him that way -- the narrator doesn't normally use Sam's speech patterns, even when we're seeing the world from Sam's POV.)

I haven't specifically looked for that when reading the book, but I've been through a couple re-reads since somebody pointed that out to me, and haven't caught anything that contradicts it.

("Master Samwise" is yet another version of Master-as-honorific -- it seems to be an honorific used for someone of a lower social station as well as for someone of high status. Doesn't Bilbo call the Gaffer "Master Hamfast" (and is considered very polite for doing so)? I don't understand the subtle ways in which the word is used -- it's got such different connotations for an American.)

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

I can see that this is going to be more complicated than I thought...

*cackles evilly*

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Just FYI, Sam also uses the bare "Frodo" without the honorific when he finds Frodo in the tower, once or twice, but he soon reverts to Mr. Frodo again.

Re: Master in LoTR

[calanthe11.livejournal.com]

Hi Rabid, hi Eykar -
sorry for jumping into your fascinating discussion like this - I just wanted to quickly draw your attention to even more ways the address "Master" is used in LotR (something which you yourself have been noting all along, of course). It's just not possible to make any kind of interpretation of the relationship between two beings just from how they refer - deferentially or not - to each other, it always depends on context.
See for example TWO TOWERS, Ch.3 The Uruk-Hai, where Merry and Pippin talk to each other in a very tongue-in-the-cheek, roundabout way addressing each other as "Master Took" and "Master Brandybuck". The address is used jokingly, of course, but not only - in Merry's voice there certainly is some admiration for how Pippin got them out of the Uruk's captivity. There's also some sense that now, that they are on their own, they must live up to the address "Master" and be responsible for their own fates. The dialogue certainly is full of irony under which lies a deeper seriousness (very much Pippin's and Merry's mode of communication).
Note also that Gandalf often calles Pippin "Master Peregrin" or "Master Pippin", that Beregond addresses him as "Master Peregrin". King Théoden also calls Merry "Master Meriadoc" - whether the first or last name is used seems to indicate closeness, but not always. Beregond certainly grows closer to Pippin but never - that I know of - calls him "Master Pippin". And note also that Elfhelm, in a very ironic if not almost sarcastic fashion, calls Merry at one point "Master Bag" ;).
As I said - it all depends on context.
Thanks for the most interesting discussion!
Calanthe

Re: Master in LoTR

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. "Master" when used as a title has multiple applications as well. Depending on whether it is used with the first name or last name it appears to have slightly different degrees of respectfulness or affection. And as you so wisely point out, the term can be used with false (if affectionate) applications too.

By all means leap into the discussion. The more the merrier!

[zirconia-b.livejournal.com]

That's kind of an extension of Sam's emotional state in "Choices," isn't it?

On the word "master": a good dictionary (especially a good British dictionary, like the Oxford English Dictionary) would probably help sort out all the different possibilities for meaning. I was going to copy info from an online dictionary, but it didn't have nearly as many subtle differences in meaning as my American Heritage Dictionary at home does. I bet the OED has a much better compilation (and would include Tolkien's meanings.)

Re: Master in LoTR

[eykar.livejournal.com]

> the two of them are jealous of each other

I just noticed this line. What led you to this conclusion?