Ponderables

[rabidsamfan]

If hobbits don't wear shoes or boots (except in rare instances) then why on earth does Sam sing about big Boots in the Troll Song, and why does he pack woolen hose?

And when Sam puts the Ring on and chases after the Orcs when they take Frodo, when does he take it off again? How many minutes/hours does Sam wear that thing, actually, and where was Gollum all that long time?

Why is it that I've never run across even one fic so far where Frodo starts out on the Quest properly hobbit-shaped, i.e. tubby in the tummy? And what happened to those rosy cheeks that Gandalf told Barliman about? Well, no I actually know the answers, don't I...

Comments

Re: Sam's toll-song

[eykar.livejournal.com]

>why and how would Sam come up with such a pretty morbid scenario in the first place? (Uh, no, I can't answer that either. :)

After being chased by Nazgul, surviving attacks by trees in the Old Forest and by barrow-wights, and seeing Frodo wounded by a magic weapon -- not to mention witnessing cruelty to an animal, probably for the first time in his life, at Bree -- how would Sam not have death on the brain?

Re: Sam's toll-song

[caraloup.livejournal.com]

how would Sam not have death on the brain?

Yes, those recent experiences definitely create a context for the song, though I don't think Sam improvised it on the spot. Not that he isn't capable of it, but it has the ring of something that he put together while he was still in the Shire and pondering Bilbo's tales.

rabidsamfan: I guess I wouldn't call it 'rough humor' so much as 'black humor.' Can you imagine other hobbits making up songs quite like that?

Re: Sam's toll-song

[eykar.livejournal.com]

The version that he had in his head when he left the Shire may have been much lighter in tone.

Re: Sam's toll-song

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Yes, actually. Sam's coming from a very rural kind of society -- births, deaths, and other things are probably less taboo as subjects than they are in other times and places. In traditional folklore there are also a number of stories about graves being robbed for bones for various reasons. Part of this of course arises from the simple problem of space. We know nothing of hobbit burial customs, but Tolkien was coming from a long established country which had been using the same churchyards for centuries. In digging new graves, old ones would certainly be discovered now and then, and skeletons would be a not entirely unfamiliar sight. And of course hungry hobbits would know the various ways that additional calories might be extracted from the bones of more prosaic origin, like chicken soup.

Trolls aren't exactly polite society anyway, and do try to eat other humanoids -- Sam knows Bilbo's story -- and a kick in the rear is a typical humorous method of revenge. Yeah, I could see Sam telling it.

Re: Sam's troll-song

[caraloup.livejournal.com]

We know nothing of hobbit burial customs, but Tolkien was coming from a long established country which had been using the same churchyards for centuries. In digging new graves, old ones would certainly be discovered now and then, and skeletons would be a not entirely unfamiliar sight.

Not for Tolkien, perhaps, but since hobbits don't have to confine themselves to churchyards of limited space, I doubt that it would be such a usual occurrence. Unless their customs are very different from those of our cultures, I'd assume that burying the dead also means to leave their remains undisturbed, if it can be helped.

And of course hungry hobbits would know the various ways that additional calories might be extracted from the bones of more prosaic origin, like chicken soup.

LOL! Well, I certainly don't think that hobbits share our contemporary taboos, but would *that* particular association impose itself? I doubt it. ;)

Yeah, I could see Sam telling it.

Well, of course. :) I just wonder how queer it might seem to other hobbits under different circumstances (before the quest, that is). There are elements to it that connect easily to hobbit attitudes, and others that don't.

Re: Sam's troll-song

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Given the natural restriction I think most of us would assume against growing crops on graves and the general food needs of hobbits, whether the burial grounds were churchyards or not I'd expect them to be of limited size -- particularly if they are near enough to villages for the kind of small visits relations might make to the grave of a beloved elder. The English had plenty of woodland if they'd been inclined to place graves higgledy piggledy across the countryside too.

Authentic folklore tends to include a lot of details more genteel literature does not -- well, except for Chaucer, who still put the farts and crudities into the voices of the lower classes...