(no subject)

[rabidsamfan]

Having a sudden fit of re-reading the book, and as I wander through the prologue and the "history" of the Red Book I am tempted to "play the game" and assume that Tolkien is pretty much translating what was written by Bilbo, Frodo and Sam (as well as Merry and assorted scribes of Gondor in the appendices).

But if so, then a curious phenomenon arises. Presumably Frodo was writing the parts about what happened in Shelob's cave through the coronation, but the point-of-view character for Frodo and Sam's part of the quest is usually Sam. And Sam probably wrote what we know about the recovery of the Shire and the Grey Havens, right? But that's where we see Frodo hiding his injuries for the sake of not bothering Sam and Rosie...

So -- playing the game -- did Sam revise what Frodo wrote about Cirith Ungol and the Mountain? Or did Frodo write what Sam told him about those places because he couldn't -- or wouldn't -- remember his own thoughts and actions? And how did Sam know about what Frodo had been thinking during that long year of writing and waiting? What conversations did they have between the time that Frodo admitted his intentions and they actually reached the harbor?

*shoos plotbunnies out into the world...*

Comments

[ancalime8301]

*shrugs* I've always assumed that Frodo wrote down what Sam told him, though whether it's because he can't remember or won't remember on his own is up to interpretation. ;) And for the return to the Shire and the Grey Havens, well, I think Frodo wrote a lot of the scouring part (which is why his role in everything is understated, and why him hiding his illnesses is acknowledged), and then Sam had to write the Grey Havens, obviously because Frodo was gone by then. :p

What conversations did they have between the time that Frodo admitted his intentions and they actually reached the harbor?

I'm going to try not to think about that, for fear of getting the hamsters into a plotting frenzy. 0:)

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Go hamsters go!

;)

[lame-pegasus.livejournal.com]

*shoos plotbunnies out into the world...*

And now they're here and won't go away!

Grmbl...

But that'sworth more than one thought. I think I'mgoing to keep that in my mind when I finally start writing Before I go to sleep

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I gave you ideas. You do such wonderful things to ideas...

[shirebound]

I just want to say that I love knowing people who care about things ilke this!

*hugs you*

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Do you know how much fun it is knowing that I can ask questions like this of a bunch of people and not just get the "you nerd" stare? I feel like Tigger with a brand new idea!

[luv2hobbits.livejournal.com]

To confused to even see plot bunnies

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

*grin* Just think of Frodo trying to write about Shelob and having to either guess at what he remembers of what Sam told him under that bush in Mordor or go and ask Sam about what happened and end up reminding him of what was plainly one of the worst moments in Sam's life when he thought Frodo was dead. How awkward is it to know that someone thought about stepping off a cliff because they thought you were dead?

[luv2hobbits.livejournal.com]

You deleted the other comment before I could respond:(
I wouldn't say it was embarrassing as much for the person who was considered dead as for the one who was to do the stepping.
Still, plotbunnies aren't coming.

[periantari.livejournal.com]

very cool thoughts..and these bunnies i definitely want to address soon too :D :D

This drift in POV to Frodo to Sam is very noticeable indeed... i think Tolkien did this consciously because didn't he say that he had always thought that Sam was the true hero of the books? By having Sam come home to say "I'm back" and have him be complete with a good life in the Shire, would one think that the Professor actually really meant for Sam to be the main character...the character with the "happily ever after?"

What conversations did they have between the time that Frodo admitted his intentions and they actually reached the harbor?
i think i'll try to address this q in my 4th chapter of "One Last Time".... hmm... ::starts to ponder away:: ;) :P

sorry had to add something... ;)

[periantari.livejournal.com]

I think the end of Book 4 was definitely written by Sam... probably most of Mordor was recollected by Sam too with Frodo recording what he wrote... lots of the Red Book is a compilation of what happened with others (like the paths of the rest of the Fellowship Frodo must've had "interviews" with ) Frodo probably wrote most of Fellowship of the Ring and bits and pieces of Book 6... very interesting shift that Tolkien wrote... but then again it's understandable and predictable since the Ring had been preoccupying Frodo's mind so much...

Re: sorry had to add something... ;)

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Frodo must have had many many conversations with the others. They'd told Bilbo a lot of the story in Rivendell, so he no doubt had the framework, but I can see him trying to elicit details from them. And *snags another bunny* you could also play it up in a parody where the hobbits are complaining about Tolkien taking the basic framework of the story and adding all sorts of emotional bits as he "translates".

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with the bunnies.

Re: Who contributed what to the Red Book

[eykar.livejournal.com]

Thinking about this, I got an answer from Elanor, which I will post to my LJ in drabble form. She doesn't know who said what to whom, but found in the last pages of the Red Book that Sam, year after year, kept adding what he had figured (or felt) out about the past during each rereading.

Re: Who contributed what to the Red Book

[rabidsamfan.livejournal.com]

Oh, joy... and the bunnies are made glad...